Notes from selling a Bellanca and VREF

leadsledfan

leadsledfan

New member
Here are some things I noticed while selling my Crusair. Maybe they will help out anyone else is looking to sell an airplane (preferably a cessna to buy a bellanca).
I showed my airplane to a broker, but wasn't impressed by the services they offered so I decided to sell it myself, on theory that i could sell it for more than they could once you factor in their fees and percentage cut.
Their is no VREF on our airplanes, and the aircraft blue book lists their value as 14,500. This makes it hard for potential buyers to get financing for a Crusair from a standard bank. It's also ridiculous. Nothing flies for 15k.
I listed the airplane on the following sites: Barnstormers, Trade a plane, Controller, Ebay, and 3-4 facebook groups.
I received plenty of praise on the Facebook groups! But almost no real interested buyers, makes you feel good though!
I recieved 0 responses from controller.
I recieved 0 responses from trade a plane.
I recieved 3 responses from barnstormers in the first week, the second week was 2, the third and fourth week was 1 total. It declines sharply once you fall below the first couple listings. I also paid a small amount for a premium listing and all of that hooplah. No serious buyers.
I recieved 18 responses, 2 offers, and sold the airplane to its new owner within 7 days using a free listing on ebay. I was totally shocked.
So maybe ebay is the way to go?

I believe my crusair was at the top of the market. It was a fantastic aairplane when I bought it, and after 5k of tweaks and improvements, she was perfect.
After owning her for roughly 18 months and flying her almost 200 hours, I just about broke even. Not too bad.
 
Adam, I am both happy for your success in the sale and sad that you have had your wings clipped. Not that you didn't give us a warning about this! Ok, now will you share your "master plan" with us? Is all that money going to buy you a Cruisemaster or Viking or ???
 
It was listed on barnstormers a couple months back.

1957 14-19-2
0-470 with 600 smoh mccauley prop
Skytec starter, spin on filter, bracket air filter
Great overall shape. Comparable in condition to my crusair.
I bought it for the panel.
Garmin 430W, PMA 6000 audio panel, JPi 700 engine monitor, fuel flow, and a 2 axis auto pilot. (Century)
It should fit my current mission profile pretty well. I needed more range, baggage, room, and speed, and i think it will be exactly what I wanted.
I am hoping to bring it home in the next couple weeks. Pics to come soon.
and then begins the true master plan muahahaha
 
Really happy for you Adam! A much better plan than making all of the mods to the Cruisair that you had considered a while back. Let me know the S/N because I am building a record of which -2's are still flying and where they are. I might have a few spare parts if you are ever in need.
 
The new cruisemaster is SN 4002.
I will definitely keep you in mind for spares, but I am going to follow the same upgrade plan that I used on the crusair. Brakes, LEDS, and going fast on less gas.
 
Congratulations Adam,
The Cruisemaster is fast, but it never burns less gas, only more gas, never ever less.
Ralph 14-19-2 #4058
 
leadsledfan said:
After owning her for roughly 18 months and flying her almost 200 hours, I just about broke even. Not too bad.
Click to expand...
The most important information to report is - how much did it sell for?
 
Adam, I have never heard of a free listing on Ebay. Was this some special deal? I might do that since Barnstormers only seems to generate interest for a few days. Grant.
 
It sold for my asking price which was 28k. That did not include delivery.

Ebay only charges you if your item sells on the site. Noone actually paid through the site, and the deal was struck after the listing had expired, so no charge from ebay. The only way that you would pay a fee is if your plane sold during the auction time and they paid through ebay. I did not intentionally plan to avoid the fee, it just worked out that almost Noone is willing to pay for an airplane online without seeing it. Go figure.

I am working on my "Master", "Master" plan, but nothing solid until I get her home in a couple weeks.
Step one is probably going to be bringing coffee and donuts to the local FSDO on a regular basis.
 
leadsled,

leadsledfan said:
28k.
Click to expand...
Thanks for sharing, that's a good market value benchmark. I bought mine in '91 for $18K; within 3 months had the Franklin 165 rebuilt, have done many repairs, adjustments, replacements of original parts, system upgrades/additions, fixed cosmetics/paint, re-upholstered the front seats, the headliner, inside of door panels, rebuilt mags, carb, and installed Tarver Aeromatic, have upgraded and added panel stuff, and so much more. At last SandF I had two folks come up a ask if I was ready to sell - never went past chit-chat.

I never saw your plane. I can only assume that my 13-14-2 may be comparable. I do hope to see Scott T in a few weeks at Triple Tree, I'm just 10 NM NW at SC47 and I'll be volunteering at TT, so if I get with him we'll burn your ears.

In any case, a decent flying and in overall good shape Cruisair for upper 20's to low 30's seems like good value for any buyer and if the seller can come close to breaking even - a win-win. The planes are wonderful flying machines, approaching vintage antique in years (dated systems, with generally 90's panel technology as upgrades), but will still go from point A to point B VFR at reasonable rates (airspeed and fuel), and get most airport line boys and girls asking, "What is this airplane, it sorta looks familiar?" I think this all adds to their value for everyone except those folks that hang around the front porches at FBO's will tell me after refueling, "Those Bellanca taildraggers will really bite you in any crosswind landing." Response - "Have you ever landed one in a crosswind?" Answer - "No, but that's what I've heard."
 
I consider my Crusair to be in the top 10% of Bellanca's. Judging from what I have seen for sale, and from what I have seen in person. I would think that any non-project bellanca should start north of 20k. Seller confidence has also hurt the value of our birds. Someone says to themselves "no one will buy this old bellanca" and lists it under 20k, and everyone who sees it begins to think that is what they are worth. Also the large number of "Projects" hasn't helped us. It is my opinion that anyone looking at an old, wood wing, fabric covered, franklin powered airplane that almost no one has seen before, doesn't want to have to fix anything. Even "Little projects" or "needs some TLC" will scare off a potential buyer, and leave you stuck marketing to a very limited, and very stingy crowd.
Mine did not have an aeromatic, but I got good numbers from the cruise prop (1000fpm climb at sea level, and 123-125 knots cruise @ 9k). It also has some nice upgrades, like a Mode S Transponder, VFR GPS, New Val Comm 2000 Radio, LED lights all around, and Grove Master cylinders on the brake.

On a separate note, I regularly landed my Crusair with cross wind components in the double digits, with no problems after I converted the Brake Master Cylinders. When I was Delivering it, I landed in Borger, Texas, for fuel, and the winds were 35 degrees @ 25 knots gusting 30. A wheel landing and good brakes made it a non-issue. It was windy enough that I had to ride the right brake all the way to the FBO for fuel to keep it straight.
 
This should go without saying but here it is anyways.
When selling ANYTHING you need photos. I would say your chances of selling an airplane without photos is about the same as cruising at 150mph in a cruisair. Works in theory, but not in practice.

I only add this because I still see bellanca's for sale on barnstormers with no pictures.
-Adam
 
Adam:

Congrats on the sale and on buying a Cruisemaster! I buy / sell / broker the occasional light airplane and have always gotten the best response from eBay ads. And yes - photos! Good quality pics sell airplanes.
 
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