How fast (really, not book) is your 14-19-2?

Larry Lowenkron

Larry Lowenkron

Member
I have long wondered how much faster the Cruisemasters are than the Cruisairs. I flight plan at 110 knots (128 mph) for my Cruisair, and my TAS is 132mph + or - 2 mph at 2500 rpm at altitude. My x cty fuel burn is 8.5 gph. I know that the book figures (or popular lore!?) are a lot higher, but then just read Lambros and Raspet reports that the club has or can be seen at the EAA Sport Aviation Archives for Jan and Feb 1957.
So, can your 14-19 guys tell me what you really get? Thanks! Larry
 
Larry, the crate indicates 145 mph at 23 sq. I see avg of 130 knots on GPS fuel is burning 13 gph. This at 3k ft. The book figures are full of BS :) Lynn
 
Who cares........The Bellanca may not be as fast as the space shuttle. There may be others out there that are faster for the HP. I believe the 14 series Bellanca was one of the best balanced airplanes available. Reasonably fast, good load capability, very good short field ability, good handling and maneuverability.........and fun to fly . You will not break this airplane in a normal world. If this wasn't true, there wouldn't be much forum activity here.
 
BTW......my model 28-90 Bellanca gets around 275 statute mph.But it takes 50gph of 100LL to do it...........dream on................. Dan
 
Harump Dean Wormer!
I CARE, otherwise I wouldn't have asked. Grant and I were talking the other day, and we have often wondered what you get for half again as much hp. From what Lynn says, not too much! Lynn, now I really understand why you call it an OPEC 470! One advantage I see of the -19 is some form of factory support. Since I plan to stop flying when I am 108, I am starting to worry about parts availability. It would also be nice to have a vacuum pump, and more electricity. Dan, I only have one flying airplane, and the thing I LOVE about my Cruisair, is that is does so much- it is a classic plane, it flys like NO OTHER plane, and I can even do limited IFR in it. While I am a relatively short time owner (19 yrs), I do want to fly faster- time is getting short .
On another note, Dan, are you going to fly to Columbia this yr? I am going to put up my usual (but futile) annual note to see if we can get a bunch of NW planes to gaggle down together. And so it goes....
Larry
 
Larry,
For what its worth I purchased an alternator for my Franklin engine which will give me 45 amps - not cheap but I couldn't resist 20 more amps. I have some nice new radios and transponder and want the battery to stay charged. Yeh a vacuum pump would be nice, whose big venturis on the side kill me, just had to remove them. I had a fly of the 14-19 with the lycoming while I was in the States 10 years ago and I recall it didn't go much quicker than my Cruisair with 165hp, it did climb a little stronger, but it was in Arizona and bloody hot to be fair.... and still lovely to fly. I can't wait to fly a low wing Bellanca again they just so nice in the air. Better get back to work

regards
Bernie
 
And I had the opportunity to fly a Super Viking this week-end. Awsome bird and very quick to respond to whatever I wanted. The down side...16 gph of 100 LL. To be fair, however, I was pushing it some. When I checked my ground speed, the GPS showed 204 knots. Fun bird but expensive to own and fly. :)
Gary
 
I’m a slow learner, so it took me about 15 years of my 20 years of Bellanca ownership to get to the point where I agree with Dan. Speed (or handling in aerobatic planes) doesn’t make a difference for Bellanca’s or any other light plane. The fact that Bellancas are faster than most and way cheaper to purchase for their age and horsepower is secondary. What keeps most coming back for more is the fun they have at the airport and the fly-ins, or interacting on forums like this. Most of this fun revolves around people - helping others get interested in flying and the social interaction required to make our planes and airport a part of the community. Like with motorcycles, boats, ATV’s, etc, performance is just one of many important excuses to exchange high class BS. So to gain max performance from your plane make sure you attend or help out as much as possible at fly-ins, OSH, Young Eagle events and the like. Also help others or try to get others involved in helping solve maintenance problems and developing skills to correctly maintain/fly airplanes.

BTW, I flight plan 130KTS on 10.825 gal/hr. Have fun!
 
Thanks, Glenn. That must be your daughter in the photo......Speed is not the 'end all' for light airplanes. If you want to go fast, join the armed forces or pump more gasoline into your tanks.... been there... done that........with a nod to Lynn's Opec 470.... I spent my career zipping around at 600mph. What does that matter, now....... Anyway, This forum is based on some sort of affection with these old beasts. Who knows????? Dan
 
Well Dan, I thought you were! OK, how about Head Curmudgeon?

All I wanted to know is the performance difference in the planes. If you use John Schwaner's Mechanics Toolbox (Sac. Sky Ranch) it comes out pretty close to what people are saying, but then that is just a formula. I want to know real life numbers.

I love the way these threads end up going all over the place. We all love these planes (though I sometimes think there is a little masochism in there too, but then that is a subject for another thread). I think that is pretty well proven by our activity and posts on this site...[the last was meant for you Glenn :)]

ps - I also want to see with my own eyes a 150mph, 150 hp Cruisair. I think they are about as real as Sasquatch!
 
Larry, A 150HP Cruisair will do 150 MPH............But it takes a bit more throttle than most of us are willing to apply for the long term. Dan
 
Dan - she's a neighbor I took on a Young Eagle ride a bunch of years ago. She's in High School now and wants to join the Air Force. She thinks Mach 2 would be cool. :D
 
I wonder how much of the difference between book speed and reality is rigging. I have recently mentioned the warped rudders, and I have seen ailerons with as much as 3/4 of an inch difference from end to end. It also had a large trim tab on the aileron. I was looking at my plane last week and noticed that my ailerons hang down about 1/4 inch below the bottom of the wing. The trailing edges are up about 1/2 inch as I was told to adjust them, but (in neutral) the leading edges hang down in the slip stream. I am sure that it causes a lot of drag. I also have one flap with nice tight gaps , and the other one with a 1 inch gap on the inboard end. It is no wonder why many of us have 130 mph planes instead of 150 mph planes. I am not looking forward to cutting into the wings to shim up the aileron brackets , but Im sure it will help to clean up the drag. 60+ years of use and maybe less than perfect repairs take a toll on speed. Also, how many antennas , rotating beacons, wing tip strobes, are on Cruisairs now that were not there 60 years ago. Clean low drag airframes have to stay clean.____My 2 cents worth.___Grant.
 
Dan,
you picked it, going right over this big bald Aussie head!!!

Grant very interested in your comments about the the ailerons hanging down into the airflow, mine do that - what is the fix? Do you suggest a seal between the flaps and the wings? If so how?

Guess I'm just all questions tonight.

Bernie
 
Man would JB love this! Even after recovering and rerigging the crate, the numbers never changed just it's apperance! Flew yesterday and yep 130 kts 147mph indicated and 13 gals delivered to OPEC o470. I love this plane and the way it flies. I agree who cares what the numbers are it puts a smile on and life is to short for anything less! :D Lynn the opec crate
 
Hi Bernie, I am not sure what would be the proper fix, but cutting more inspection holes in the wing is going to be needed. I dont think the brackets on the ailerons can be adjusted, so a tapered shim between the rear spar and the mounting bracket would be needed. It might create a clearance problem between the aileron and the gussets that support the trailing edge of the wings plywood. I have a damaged wing that I will cut into before I cut on my own plane, just to make sure it will work. As far as the flap gap goes,I have seen inboard ribs so curved in from over tightening the fabric that a piece of balsa was cut and glued in place and then fabric was doped over it. My own is straight, but a 1+ inch gap. I am going to put an aluminum plate on the wing walk area that will extend out far enough to seal it. A friends Cruisair has this seal ,so I will check it to see how they were attached. I may see the plane this weekend, so I will let you know what I find.___I hope the land Down Under is treating you well. Please say Hi to Damion._____Grant.
 
To all concerned......The inboard rib of the aileron is to be 1/2" above the outboard rib of the flap..............in flight. Rigging in these old wood structured aircraft is a problem after all these years and causes deterioration in performance. Grant is correct in his statement that the aileron hangers are tough to shim. Yes, to properly shim these, you need access to both sides of the rear spar. Access to the front of the spar is easy. To get to the rear, where the shims need to go, you need to bore access holes. If you are in the rebuild stage,like Bernie, NOW IS THE TIME. A careful plug patch will do the job. Ideally, the top skin of the aileron should just barely clear the top wing of the wing. An ideal Bellanca would have no trim tabs. Where will we find that?????????. . Bernie, Larry Lowenkron is the expert on "Dean Wormer," as filmed in his backyard of Eugene ,Oregon as Animal House . I'm sure it's available 'down under.' Dan
 
My 14-19-2's performance is similar to Lynn's. I run 24^2 and see between 155 and 160 at 3000 feet, depending on how smooth the air is and the loading of the airplane. That's burning about 14gph (ouch).
 
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