Robert Szego
New member
We had an overseas request for an STC to tow banners with a Decathlon. I have never heard of one, and none is listed as a commercial STC.
Anyone?
Anyone?
Decathlon Banner Tow
- Thread starter Robert Szego
- Start date
'Overseas' is having an issue with the Schitzer tow hitch currently. Basically, they dont trust a placard; you need to type the placard out on a piece of paper and call it a Supplemental Flight Manual. You know how pilots love to read books while flying...what good is a messege right on the control? If the pilot covers the placard with his hand, he wont be able to see it. Thats dangerous. (eye roll)
Ok, sorry, started to rant a little about bureaucracy :twisted:
Anyway, as far as I know the Schitzer tow hitch is approved on the 8KCAB as well, but as I mentioned, they might not like it.
Ok, sorry, started to rant a little about bureaucracy :twisted:
Anyway, as far as I know the Schitzer tow hitch is approved on the 8KCAB as well, but as I mentioned, they might not like it.
Robert Szego
New member
Dear Bill:
I just reviewed the TCDS A21CE and found no reference to a factory-installed tow hitch. Where did you find the reference?
Jerry?
Thanks,
I just reviewed the TCDS A21CE and found no reference to a factory-installed tow hitch. Where did you find the reference?
Jerry?
Thanks,
Robert Szego
New member
New style TCDS? I have noticed a different look, but was not aware that certificated options will no longer be listed... is there another document available that does?
Thanks,
Thanks,
Nope.
A TCDS is a minimal approach that is like A21CE. I would guess implimented around the time Part 23 was.
Compare to A-759 which is not really a TCDS but instead dubbed an 'aircraft specification'. Serves the same function but was to include as many options as posible. On more complex aircraft it got too cumbersome to update accurately.
A TCDS is a minimal approach that is like A21CE. I would guess implimented around the time Part 23 was.
Compare to A-759 which is not really a TCDS but instead dubbed an 'aircraft specification'. Serves the same function but was to include as many options as posible. On more complex aircraft it got too cumbersome to update accurately.
Hey! Maybe... are we talking about me here? I´m Mr. Overseas :wink: and I asked right about that more or less when this thread started!
That said, HI!, I´m new in here!
Talking about the instalation of a towing hook on a 8KCAB overseas, today I have many more things to say than a couple of months ago. Do you wanna hear it? Here we go:
The installation itself is not a problem as that drawing, the 7-1143, exists. Anyway, installing a different one would be difficult but possible. The real problem is that placard-paper that was mentioned somewhere a few responses before. While the installation is possible, USING IT is the hard part! They need the airplane´s manuals to include somewhere that during the airplane´s design, they thought in towing as a possible operation. There you should find the recommended speeds to do so, the airplane´s weights, the towed "glider" weight... this is, how you should fly the plane while towing. That´s the "funny" part, as Bellanca, of course, didn´t write a manual telling anyone how to tow with a Decathlon, so, of course again, there´s not any approved Decathlon´s manual including those data.
It´s obvious that one should tow around the 60 KIAS, it´s obvious that you are not going to tow anything able to break the towing hitch or the Decathlon´s tail... mostly because most ropes have a fuse that would break sooner, but too because it will be written down somewhere on the towing device´s manuals! They asked me for the same to tow with my 172, but fortunatelly Cessna had a JAA approved manual for my model.
The solutions are a few, and related to the "don´t ask if you don´t want to hear no":
- One is installing it, that is legal, and then renting the plane to a company, wich AOC allows them to tow, for a period shorter than 3 months. That way you don´t have to put the Decathlon into that AOC, so you don´t have to demonstrate it´s able to use that towing hook.
- Then there´s another, that is kind of complex but that would solve the problem forever on a unique unit. Find a smart JAA inspector, one knowing something about airplanes and not dedicated to forbid things. Demonstrate that the installation is approved, wich, to a logical inspector in a logical world should demonstrate that the airplane can tow! Have your own manual to tow with your unit, the benditions of the FAA, the benditions of some USA operator, the benditions of some European operator (there´s at least one), the benditions of a JAA-EASA engineer and then try to get the benditions of that nice JAA inspector for yours. If you have the chance to find him (not easy, believe me), the chance to talk about the idea before he refuses to listen, well presented documentation supporting your idea... maybe you can get that manual approved for your unit.
I didn´t try myself because of course it´s all "experimental", but some friends bought their Decathlon, not considering all this in advance, tried later to install that towing hook and found this problem, so I´m "experimenting" with theirs once it´s here :wink: Will see how it works.
Why a Decathon and not a 7GCBC or 8GCBC? The 8GCBC is not aerobatic, that´s it. The 7GCBC... try to find a nice Bellanca in Europe, there´s no way! It can be hard even in the USA using only the internet. Considering that you have ALL the planes, the task of finding something here becomes impossible. Too expensive and too burned out when you are lucky to find one. The only good-well priced thing I found, was a Decathlon in France that was having this very same problem.
Wasn´t this a long introduction post? :shock:
José
That said, HI!, I´m new in here!
Talking about the instalation of a towing hook on a 8KCAB overseas, today I have many more things to say than a couple of months ago. Do you wanna hear it? Here we go:
The installation itself is not a problem as that drawing, the 7-1143, exists. Anyway, installing a different one would be difficult but possible. The real problem is that placard-paper that was mentioned somewhere a few responses before. While the installation is possible, USING IT is the hard part! They need the airplane´s manuals to include somewhere that during the airplane´s design, they thought in towing as a possible operation. There you should find the recommended speeds to do so, the airplane´s weights, the towed "glider" weight... this is, how you should fly the plane while towing. That´s the "funny" part, as Bellanca, of course, didn´t write a manual telling anyone how to tow with a Decathlon, so, of course again, there´s not any approved Decathlon´s manual including those data.
It´s obvious that one should tow around the 60 KIAS, it´s obvious that you are not going to tow anything able to break the towing hitch or the Decathlon´s tail... mostly because most ropes have a fuse that would break sooner, but too because it will be written down somewhere on the towing device´s manuals! They asked me for the same to tow with my 172, but fortunatelly Cessna had a JAA approved manual for my model.
The solutions are a few, and related to the "don´t ask if you don´t want to hear no":
- One is installing it, that is legal, and then renting the plane to a company, wich AOC allows them to tow, for a period shorter than 3 months. That way you don´t have to put the Decathlon into that AOC, so you don´t have to demonstrate it´s able to use that towing hook.
- Then there´s another, that is kind of complex but that would solve the problem forever on a unique unit. Find a smart JAA inspector, one knowing something about airplanes and not dedicated to forbid things. Demonstrate that the installation is approved, wich, to a logical inspector in a logical world should demonstrate that the airplane can tow! Have your own manual to tow with your unit, the benditions of the FAA, the benditions of some USA operator, the benditions of some European operator (there´s at least one), the benditions of a JAA-EASA engineer and then try to get the benditions of that nice JAA inspector for yours. If you have the chance to find him (not easy, believe me), the chance to talk about the idea before he refuses to listen, well presented documentation supporting your idea... maybe you can get that manual approved for your unit.
I didn´t try myself because of course it´s all "experimental", but some friends bought their Decathlon, not considering all this in advance, tried later to install that towing hook and found this problem, so I´m "experimenting" with theirs once it´s here :wink: Will see how it works.
Why a Decathon and not a 7GCBC or 8GCBC? The 8GCBC is not aerobatic, that´s it. The 7GCBC... try to find a nice Bellanca in Europe, there´s no way! It can be hard even in the USA using only the internet. Considering that you have ALL the planes, the task of finding something here becomes impossible. Too expensive and too burned out when you are lucky to find one. The only good-well priced thing I found, was a Decathlon in France that was having this very same problem.
Wasn´t this a long introduction post? :shock:
José