Considering 14-19-2 Purchase: Any advice?

T

Tinnemaha

New member
Hello Forum,

This is my first post........joined recently to help gather info on a 14-19-2 project I'm considering getting myself into. I've (finally) completed my first experimental (Kitfox w/Lyc O-235) & am looking into what I hope/believe is a less daunting project. PLEASE inform me if I'm fooling myself! Keep in mind that I'm not familiar with the certificated side of the house & am unclear about what work I can do & what I have to pay someone else to do. I want to do as much as I can & hopefully get a little sweat equity (Tell me I'm an idiot only if it's true) A big part of my ability to get this thing flying is the ability to do most of the work myself.
The one I'm considering has been hangared but taken apart & not run for ~23 years. ~1,700 hrs TTAF. Paint job started but not complete. Low time engine not pickled, just shut down. Hartzell Prop; AD was complied with about 10 years ago. Wood & craftsmanship look real good according an independent source I consider knowledgeable on the subject. Panel is mostly there, but radios & transponder are throw-aways.
Before talking price, please give me an idea of what I should be aware of (i.e. any lessons you learned along the way.) Yes, please then give me a rough idea of what the project might be worth as is.

Specific Questions:
What is a typical empty weight (i.e. no fuel) for this model?
Is 54 gallons (20+20+14) the typical total fuel capacity?
What is a wobble pump?
Short of money, why would an I-A want to sign off my work? How did you all do it?
If/when I get it flying again, how much time/effort will likely be required to keep it there?

Any Helpful advice will be appreciated.

Thanks,

Grant
 
Typical weight would be 1650-1700 pounds empty. It has a fuel capacity of 54 gallons of which 50 are useable. In straight and level flight you can probably use all 54, but do you want to end your flight with straight and level flight??Your plane sounds like an easy restoration, so if you value your time at 50 cents and hour you will do better than if you bought one that is already restored. It is possible to put $100,000 into this plane and none have sold for over $50,000 for what I know. Some maintain that an engine that is improperly stored for ten years is needing rebuilding, but some would fly it with some minor inspection and seal replacement, etc. The Hartzell prop has AD's that will drive you nuts, so you may wish to get one of the new AD-proof Hartzels ($10-15K). What you will get if you restore it yourself is bragging rights. When you go to get togethers, you will have the pride of having done it yourself and you can win awards, etc. You can't put a price on that. I bought mine restored and I am a bit ashamed when people who have poured tons of sweat equity into their birds tell me how nice mine is. By the way, the wobble pump is a little hand pump that you can wobble back and forth to pump up the fuel pressure prior to starting, etc.(and if the engine driven pump should fail) It is a minor item and some have replaced them with little electric fuel pumps as a back up to the engine driven pump
 
A couple of things to keep in mind:
1 You should replace all engine fuel and oil lines, and landing gear and brake hydraulic lines for safety.
2. Does the plane have a legal strobe light system..required for night flight.?
3. When it comes time to install avionics, you will find that most of the aircraft wiring needs to be replaced.
3.. flight instruments will need to be overhauled.
4. The landing gear "power pack" control system may very well need a $1600 overhaul upon return to service.
5. Has the "professional mechanic" checked the wing roots for the Airworthiness Directive concerning "cracks and checking" of the wing spar roots.?
6. Magnetoes and other engine acessories should be overhauled or at least inspected before flight.
7. You will want to upgrade to clevland brakes, an oil filter system, intercom, perhaps soundproofing.......better do it as you are refurbishiing it,
8. Anything that is "rubber" will need to be replaced in the next years or so. Door seals, brake system 0-rings, baffling seals on engine, tires & tubes, strut seals. etc.
None of these things are major......but important..Ken McCune A&P/IA extraordinary
 
Thank You very much for the info.......that's most of what I was looking for. The power pack, strobe, sound proofing & others are new info to me. My enthusiasm is being brought back to reality, which is what I hoped to get from this forum.

2 big questions remain:

1 - Will any I-A in his right mind sign off my work? I certainly can't afford to pay someone else to do the work & I may have serious trouble paying an I-A just to inspect my work (Mainly 'cuz I have no idea how much he might charge for such services, if I can get them at all) I'm debating between getting this Bellanca & building another experimental. Which is the better route?

2 - Any estimates of what the project might be worth in its' current state? How 'bout working backwards & giving an idea of what the finished project might be worth, assuming a pretty standard VFR panel?

Thanks again the info already given!
 
You'll have a LOT less hassle building an experimental vs, a certified plane. Read through the forum, and you can see that you really do need to be nuts to want one of these...Fortunately for me, my wife works in the psych ward at our local hospital so I have it easy...I just go visit her, and they hook me up to the electro shock equipment. Read what the rest of us have been doing. Jonathan can tell you all about the joys of powerpacks. (See previous posts)

Larry
N86866
 
Hey Grant: These Bellancophiles speak with forked tongue from their black little hearts..............we will tell you you are crazy for building up one....than ask you for the number of the owner so we can go buy it ourselves.....not that we all don't already have two unfinished projects in our garages........goofy bunch.......Merry Chrsitmas to all Ken

oh yea can I have the number of the 14-19-2 guy.....that is my dream Bellanca

If you ever need an IA that is as crooked as a dogs hind leg I'm here to serve you.
 
Grant,

Take note...'we all ...already have two unfinished projects in our garages'. That should set alarm bells ringing!

It's amazing how quickly a 'dream Bellanca' becomes a grinding nightmare...I know, I know!

Phil
 
<PLEASE inform me if I'm fooling myself!>

PROBABLY!!!

<Keep in mind that I'm not familiar with the certificated side of the house>

Experimental you get a box of brand new parts, hopefully a detailed set of plans. All the hardware and finish kits you need in most modern kits and away you go.

Rebuilding you take apart a greasy, dirty old airplane clean up everything, try to find all parts and hardware needed for a 50 year old aircraft. And in the case of the 14-19-2 try to remember how it all went back together with only a few drawings. (Take a LOT of pictures.)

<am unclear about what work I can do>

As you know you HAVE to have an A&P’s supervision. Ideally, build in the back of some ones shop. With access to thier tools and hardware.
Or move to ID and hire Ken.

<Tell me I'm an idiot only if it's true>

If you are so am I, in fact I’m a CFI!!!!

I bought mine in May as savage (gear wiped out) and am having a great time finding parts, going back together, and making new friends along the way. But it has turned into a major project just because of the age and uniqueness of the aircraft. It’s turned from a hammer it together project to sell, to a keeper. (The 210 is going down the road)


I guess what I am trying to say is :arrow: *don’t under estimate the project.*

As one of the old craftsman I work with used to say, “throw a couple of tires out there on the floor and let’s build an airplane.â€
 
Grant
You might want to print the whole AD list for your bird from FAA on their web site. Not only for airframe but for engine, prop and components like mags , generator/alternator etc.

Also print yourself a Type Certificate to see if all equipment is in line or if not, proper paperwork got filled 337 etc.

I did that for mine and could see what was done and not, It gave me a good idea of what I had to invest just to have it in original condition and complying.
I don't regret at all and enjoy this bird like crazy. Haven't flown for 2 weeks because of snow storm and work and I want to climb the wall... :twisted:

Or buy a finished flying project that the owner went thru divorce and got washed out because he passed the last 20 years rebuilding it without taking care of his wife or familly... just make sure there is no lien on it... :wink:
It will be cheaper in time, money and emotion... :roll:
:lol: just kidding.

Alain
 
Thank You all very much for the posts........VERY helpful! I'm no longer drooling over the project, but now have a lump in throat instead. I think the $35 I dropped may have already come back to me.

Alain, GREAT suggestion on getting the AD list & type certificate printed out.........I was not aware that one could even do such a thing, and I have absolutely no idea how to do so, but I will be trying to find out now thanks to your post.

Special thanks to mhackens & Ken McCune too for answering specific questions. I've decided to drop $650 for a Bellanca guru mechanic to come check out the plane in great detail before making any decisions.

Blah, blah, blah.......Thanks for the info is all I wanted to say.

Grant
 
Hey Mr hackens: I'm still bitter about you out bidding on that 14-19-2.........I really wanted it . I had my brother over in Newell go look at it & everything........

I had planned to pillage my wifes' retirement to get it............mine is already squandered on my Cruisair..... Planebones
 
Whatever your worst nightmare is about time, cost,and labor - triple it. If you're still interested your a Bellanca affectionado and I wish you the best with your project.
 
...and I'll offer to sneak you in for electro-shock therapy.
Good luck on your project. Once you get it flying, you'll understand there's hardly any other plane worth messing with.
Larry
 
Ken

I would like to say I’m sorry but I’m not. I would have probably had it about together now but have decided I will definitely keep it. So the project has gone from a rebuild to a restoration.

I would have probably given it to you about 8 pm last night when I finally gave up putting the second gear together. The first went right together the second they must have got some power coat inside because I can’t get the strut to slide freely.

We will be going over you this weekend on the way to Caldwell to see the grandkids. Have a Merry Christmas.

Grant
Are you listening, nothing can top that first flight in a homebuilt you labored on for years. But flying around in a classic that is so rare that there was only one at Oshkosh this year will come close.

Happy Holidays everyone:

Monty Hackens
 
Hey Monte stop in to see me some time, I live just two miles south of the Driggs airport phone is 307-699-0087 I will take you snowmobiling ....av gas is cheap here too, just $5.70

Hey Phil give me a call or e mail me at mcbears@tetontel.com about the 14-19-2........I suppose my Scottish last name might give away that I am a cheapskate. Ken McCune...
 
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