Banner Tow

everytimeifly

New member
I was looking for a Super D to tow banners with and do some tailwheel signoffs as well as some aerial photography... what do you guys think about the super D and its capabilities for each as a tow plane, trainer, and photo platform?


ryan
 
I Ryan,

This is my second post in here, so I hope I have the blessing of the other members to make a reply of it 8)

While any plane can be used in any kind of work (if you have the money, you can attach a towing hook to a Jumbo; THAT´d be spectacular on the beaches... :roll: maybe by next summer), there are, of course, tasks that each model can comply with better than with some others.

Let me guess on this one and make someone with his own experience come and correct me (please).

The Super D has the power to tow a regular banner, but then, it has the wrong wing. That means that to fly around the 60 knots you´ll need a higher AOA than on, say, a Scout. That greater AOA means two things itself: you´ll have more drag to fight using engine´s power and an air intake not designed to cool it down in that attitude. These two facts have, again, another two meanings. One, you´ll be using some more power. Two, you´ll have a much worse/weak air circulation around the cylinders.

One needs a 50mm cannon to break a Lyco 360, yes, but that´s only a way to talk. If towing doesn´t make any good to the engines, adding some other factors like those doesn´t help to keep ´em healthy.

I´m sure any other Citabria-like model, excepting for the little 7ECA, would comply with it better.

That said, 180HP on that tiny and light airframe are a lot of HP´s!! Cessnas 172 with 160HP are towing out there, with a bigger frontal section, bigger wings, more weight and a smaller engine. They do pretty well, so a Super D shouldn´t be that bad; just tow at 65 knots. The banner will last a few less hours, but the engine will last a few more. :D

About the pictures, I have like one million from a Citabria, and they all show some part of the airframe. Then, those were the classical "family" pictures, so I guess if you find the clear space, the path to "attack" the objetive and the position inside the cockpit...

Teaching people to fly a taildragger in one. From what I´ve seen, they can be easier to fly than a Cub, but I guess it depends on the student too. I found it more sensitive at the controls than the Cub, faster, more precise. While the newbee tends to over control the taildraggers (first meters on take off and last on landing) during his first hours, a slower response to the control inputs that could seem good, can turn in bad stuff. As the student won´t see the plane obeying, he will push harder, and all that input will come together. He´ll try to re-correct, will push the other way... won´t see anything, will push harder and by that time it all will come together again. Will try to correct... If the controls are faster, but not faster Sukhoi style, this reaction can be partialy solved.

Now, everyone out there with 1/2 hour on a Super D, please, come and correct all this mess!

Hope I confused you :P

Jose
 
I have a 150 HP Decathlon, which I use for banner towing, I have had no probem at all. I did have to install the ACA ground adjustable cowl flap, does a great job of keeping the cyl, and oil temps down. I towed with a 7KCAB for many years and was not sure how the 8KCAB would do but it does just fine. Bill Becker
 
Hey Bill,

You mentioned in another thread (Decathlon Banner Tow) that you saw something about the towing hook in your AFM, item 37. Could you PLEASE tell me what it says, what you have there? I mean, what data are included on it, if only instalation or anything about use (maximum weights or whatever). Something I could use to smack the JAA´s face.

THANK YOU!

Jose
 
Jose,
In my "FAA Approved Flight Manual" Dated Arril 14 1975.
Page 20 of 22, Item NO. 37A says : under description "Glider Tow, Schweitzer 3-1127" under DWG. "DWG. 7-1143" under WT, LB "3.94" under ARM, IN "113.00".

Hope this helps, I could email you a copy of that page if needed.

Bill Becker
 
Please PLEASE PLEASE do so :lol: I´m going to buy a new plane this week or by the beginning of the next one. I have three options: a burned out tow-plane, another burned out tow-plane or a NICE 1975 8KCAB.

The Decathlons (and Super-D´s of course) are the airplanes that got me into this buying airplanes thing. The bad luck have been keeping me away from them for one reason or another, and getting me into the towing business. Today, once again, I have to take the determination of choosing an airplane or another. By choosing any of the "toasted" tow-planes, I have the sure appoval to use them towing, while buying the Decathlon, that is what I really want, I won´t have anything for sure. Any little step I´m closer to the official JAA requirements, I´m a step away from trying to convince a sinlge inspector to get an exclusive approval for my installation and its use.

Try with "el_pilo" at Hotmail.com, or better yet, with "el_pilo2" at Yahoo.es (notice the "ES" extension).

I´ve seen the picture of your Decathlon (my screen saver in fact :P ). You did a really good job restoring it for what I can see. She´s a beauty.

Thank you, thank you, thank you and one thousand times thank you!!

Sorry for the hijack-like intervention Ryan!

Jose
 
Bill, that is part of your equipment list and is not part of the 'Approved' part of the manual.

However, the information is correct.
One could buy the drawing 7-1143 from us for $50. :wink:
Thats the approved data you need to get started.
 
Ouch!

Dunno what to do. Trying with the 200 SMOH Decathlon or getting a ´66 Socata Rallye, wich is falling appart, for the same price :lol: Well, it´s not actually funny :(

I have some contracts starting in a couple of days, but if I had some minimum guarantee that the Decathlon would make it thru the JAA by the next year, I´d pleasantly pass those 200 hours to someone else and stick with the Bellanca. Da**! What to do? Is this one of those "now or never" things?

By the way, and once in the thread semi-hijack (semi because after all, this can be answering the original question in some way), do you need some special bureaucratic process, like invoking some deceased inspector´s soul by burning up the airplane´s docs into a circle made with your blood, to get a FAA approval for the towing operation like the JAA is asking us to do? Just trying to figure some way to convince this Jyhadists Against Aviation. If the FAA has a similar process, may be I could convince the JAA (after all, this is not other than a bad translated copy of the FAA, adding as much esoteric complications as they could think of).

Whatever, any idea, suggestion, e-mail showing some moral support (like 1 million $) or whatever, will be more than welcome.

Thanks

Jose
 
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