Alternator in a Cruisair
- Thread starter vh2q
- Start date
Curious your mention of a 50 amp generator.
In the Bellanca Type Certificate Data Sheet for the 14-13 series there are 2 generators, a 15 amp Autolite, probably for the base model, and the "108. Generator - Delco-Remy 25 amp., part No. 1101887"
I have the larger 25 amp which I mistakenly id'd as 35 amp rated.
Its likely you may have a 25 amp unit and that would explain the ~20 amp test result otherwise it is part of some STC'd/(or not) upgrade. Could be wrong, and there has been a larger generator around for a while that I never heard of.
Regarding whether the 25 amp gen is "good enough" , I always thought so, though I never expected it to carry the load of the large landing light . With LED lighting replacements and solid state avionics using just a trickle of juice compared to the old tube stuff, I can't see why even a well equipped Cruisair could not get by with the 25 amp gen with an amp or two left over.`
By the way, the Petten Cruisair was the most gorgeous airplane I ever saw. Not sure that is your plane. Not sure there was not more than one plane he was involved with. But I was never more impressed. Petten was a total artist about everything I saw on that airplane. I'm heavy on tech, but art is illusive.
In the Bellanca Type Certificate Data Sheet for the 14-13 series there are 2 generators, a 15 amp Autolite, probably for the base model, and the "108. Generator - Delco-Remy 25 amp., part No. 1101887"
I have the larger 25 amp which I mistakenly id'd as 35 amp rated.
Its likely you may have a 25 amp unit and that would explain the ~20 amp test result otherwise it is part of some STC'd/(or not) upgrade. Could be wrong, and there has been a larger generator around for a while that I never heard of.
Regarding whether the 25 amp gen is "good enough" , I always thought so, though I never expected it to carry the load of the large landing light . With LED lighting replacements and solid state avionics using just a trickle of juice compared to the old tube stuff, I can't see why even a well equipped Cruisair could not get by with the 25 amp gen with an amp or two left over.`
By the way, the Petten Cruisair was the most gorgeous airplane I ever saw. Not sure that is your plane. Not sure there was not more than one plane he was involved with. But I was never more impressed. Petten was a total artist about everything I saw on that airplane. I'm heavy on tech, but art is illusive.
Yes my plane is Bob Petten's record setting plane with retracts and his gear fairings. Here's how I know that. We ferried the plane from Idaho to TX. When we landed in AZ, we were preparing to depart when a tall gent came up to me and addressed me by name. I was a bit taken aback, to say the least, because nobody except my wife knew where we were. I said yes. He introduced himself and then pointed to his shirt. There was an embroidered picture of a Bellanca with my tail no on it! He explained that his father owned the plane in CA way back and he had been following us online since our departure. He knew a lot about the plane including the Petten story, and had been in touch over the years with the gent that restored the plane and then sold it to me.
When I got back to TX, I went through a pile of paperwork that came with the plane. I found an article in the Bellanca newsletter with a photo of my plane (same tail no) identifying it as Petten's plane.
My gen is marked 50A, and I presume it was upgraded when the electric gear was installed.
When I got back to TX, I went through a pile of paperwork that came with the plane. I found an article in the Bellanca newsletter with a photo of my plane (same tail no) identifying it as Petten's plane.
My gen is marked 50A, and I presume it was upgraded when the electric gear was installed.
Wow, quite a story.
I remember the Petten Crusair with the gear clamshells, extended side windows and a jazzy modified shape for the small stab tip fins. His mods got me to do some similar things, open baggage area, extending the rear windows, did a decent fuselage static port, faired the draggy eyebrows and did a smoothy on the wings with micro balloon. The Petten Crusair was inspiring.
Re: your generator. I am an A&P and go back to the pre-alternator days, so I am comfortable with the subject. I am thinking regulator re your gen's low output, since, in the case of generators, the regulator controls max output. It Could be a wrong reg for a lower output unit, mis-adjusted or a just bad unit.
Back in the day, these regulators were considered field reparable. An extra cover with openings to allow adjustments with the cover on makes the job easier since the absence of the steel cover effects results.
Then there is a solid state reg advertised for generators to consider.
Your point about the weight of the generator is well taken. The book weight of the 25/35 amp is heavy at 16 lbs. The 50 amp, I would think, 20 or more. A modest sized alternator @ 6 lbs could do the job. The Monkworkz 30 amp for experimentals weighs 2.6 lbs.
Ron
I remember the Petten Crusair with the gear clamshells, extended side windows and a jazzy modified shape for the small stab tip fins. His mods got me to do some similar things, open baggage area, extending the rear windows, did a decent fuselage static port, faired the draggy eyebrows and did a smoothy on the wings with micro balloon. The Petten Crusair was inspiring.
Re: your generator. I am an A&P and go back to the pre-alternator days, so I am comfortable with the subject. I am thinking regulator re your gen's low output, since, in the case of generators, the regulator controls max output. It Could be a wrong reg for a lower output unit, mis-adjusted or a just bad unit.
Back in the day, these regulators were considered field reparable. An extra cover with openings to allow adjustments with the cover on makes the job easier since the absence of the steel cover effects results.
Then there is a solid state reg advertised for generators to consider.
Your point about the weight of the generator is well taken. The book weight of the 25/35 amp is heavy at 16 lbs. The 50 amp, I would think, 20 or more. A modest sized alternator @ 6 lbs could do the job. The Monkworkz 30 amp for experimentals weighs 2.6 lbs.
Ron
What would it take to put an alternator in the plane? With the main gear fairings, the smaller fins in the back, a spin-on oil cooler and the gear motor/chain she is getting a bit chubby.
Here's a photo of the Petten plane taken recently. That's me on the left, and John (can't say his last name) whose Dad owned the plane when he was a youngster. John intercepted us en route from ID to TX, in Gila Bend AZ. He is wearing a shirt with the plane's tail no embroidered on it. John had not seen the plane in about 50 years.
Here's a photo of the Petten plane taken recently. That's me on the left, and John (can't say his last name) whose Dad owned the plane when he was a youngster. John intercepted us en route from ID to TX, in Gila Bend AZ. He is wearing a shirt with the plane's tail no embroidered on it. John had not seen the plane in about 50 years.
Rob58
Moderator
As you probably are aware, Robert Szego, owner of this forum, passed away a few weeks ago thus this site is presently unmanaged. phpBB must be attended to periodically or it will eventually break. Plans are in place to assume control of the forum and other resources, so please stand by.ronm said:trying an image upload
Same error as above using drag and drop. No luck either from google drive url of a pic.
Time to update or fix phpBB.
Rob
Where this saga ended up .. sort of.
As found, the plane had a 50A breaker and the alternator switch placard said 50A. I am pretty sure I saw 50A on the nameplate as well. On the occasion of removing the starter, we decided to take the generator out for a test. It was tested as the last annual and pronounced OK but we never got the details of the bench test, and post annual w found that the generator could not support all the lights and instruments when the landing lights were on. So bench test no. 2 .. the tech said it was a 25A generator, but it put out 37A at "full field" and that it "looked old". Further, he said the Bosch regulator was not correct and was allowing only about 13V even though that bench tested OK at the annual as well. So we replaced that with an electronic unit and had the generator rebuilt. We changed the circuit breaker to 35A and replaced the original landing lights with LED lights from Whelen Aerospace which made the biggest difference, they only pull a couple of amps each where I suspect the originals pulled at least 12 each. Now the generator would support the entire load at 1800 rpm plus with room to charge the battery. I have electric gear in this plane and it pulls about 18A for a minute or so, up or down, as the screw takes 100 turns to operate the gear. I didn't pay much attention to the ammeter during gear operation but I expect it went negative during that time. Usually when lowering or raising the gear there are other things happening. WIll check next time.
As found, the plane had a 50A breaker and the alternator switch placard said 50A. I am pretty sure I saw 50A on the nameplate as well. On the occasion of removing the starter, we decided to take the generator out for a test. It was tested as the last annual and pronounced OK but we never got the details of the bench test, and post annual w found that the generator could not support all the lights and instruments when the landing lights were on. So bench test no. 2 .. the tech said it was a 25A generator, but it put out 37A at "full field" and that it "looked old". Further, he said the Bosch regulator was not correct and was allowing only about 13V even though that bench tested OK at the annual as well. So we replaced that with an electronic unit and had the generator rebuilt. We changed the circuit breaker to 35A and replaced the original landing lights with LED lights from Whelen Aerospace which made the biggest difference, they only pull a couple of amps each where I suspect the originals pulled at least 12 each. Now the generator would support the entire load at 1800 rpm plus with room to charge the battery. I have electric gear in this plane and it pulls about 18A for a minute or so, up or down, as the screw takes 100 turns to operate the gear. I didn't pay much attention to the ammeter during gear operation but I expect it went negative during that time. Usually when lowering or raising the gear there are other things happening. WIll check next time.