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kapilot2000

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I am buying a 14-13-2 complete project. I have recovered several planes before but they was not intended to be a keepers. They were Piper Pawnees that I sprayed with. I like this aircraft because it is not one that is seen around our airport (SRC). I intend to take however much time is needed to put it together right. I would like to know where you think I should start in the rebuilding process. I believe the wood in the wings are fine but I noticed that the wood former below the left pilot side window is very rotten. any help is needed This aircraft has a O-435A Lyc. 190 hp. engine with it What can I expect in preformance from this aircraft. and should there be any mods that I should consider before I start? :?:
 
Is this a 14-13-2 or a 14-19-2. Most O-435 Lyc engines were standard in a Cruisemaster 14-19 and the 14-19-2 has a O-470 Continental, so I'm confused on your model and can't reply as to performance. I will say that with these old Bellancas you will turn heads at the airport. They are a rush to fly! LYNN N9818B :lol:
 
BY all means start at the front have your prop inspected . About 50% are junk.If it won't pass there are no other props that will fit it.You must find parts(very hard)or CHANGE engines.I think you could install the cont.o-470, parts(engine)and props are readly available.I started at the tail wheel and learned the hard way!
 
If you have any problem with the engine or prop I personaly would trash them and go back to a 165 or a 180 franklin. I regulary out perform an O-435 power craft with my 165 powered plane. probably because my plane is light. There is nothing about an O-435 that is light and parts are very hard to find. Greg
 
If the 0-435 does not work out I'd find ad 0-470.continental supports this engine,mechanics have all worked on it and the plane will climb like a rocket .
 
0-435 parts are breathtaking, that's if you can even find them! Sell that engine and get a 165 Franklin or 0-470K Continental. Both these engines are supported by PZL and Teledyne. LYNN N9818B :shock:
 
Do you know what is involved in doing an engine change?What about the hydraulic pump,engine mount?
 
Mark, if you change engines, get on that falls in your Type Certificate. There is no paper work to speak of if the TC calls for that engine and the engine is for that airframe so no problem with accessorys. A 14-19 Tc calls for the 0-435A a 14-19-2 calls for a 0-470K. In my case the 14-19-2 I have the 0-470K which is type spec. K5 which changes the engine mounts and adds a fuel pump. The Cont has pads for all this and Hyd. pump, vac. pump. If you check the weight of the 0-435 you will find that it is a very heavy engine and was made to power tanks. I agree with the other writer that on your 14-13 project the lighter engine will make it perform better. I also know that Hartzell props are AD city. I have an STC McCulley on my ship no AD's and better performance. The prop is TC for a 14-19-3 with IO-470F 260hp. Information is power and this forum is super for us Bellanca owners. Press on LYNN N9818B
 
You will definately have paperwork to change to an 0-470... that isn't a TC option on the 14-13... get ahold of a savvy IA, and start talking to the FAA well in advance of buying a bunch of parts, as you could wind up with something that will never get approved, and just be out the money.... The 165 Franklin is approved by TC, so therefore just requires the log entry and proper weight and balance, etc., but the 0-470 is NOT!
John H.
 
That's quite right - the Crusair is not covered in the TC that applies to 'Masters and early Vikings. Also, not only will W&B be an issue, but cowl width will be as well. You cannot fit an O-470 into the cowl of a 14 series aircraft of genuine Bellanca manufacture.

First, as Mark notes, look at the prop and when it was last overhauled. The clamps were subject to an AD in '85 with a grace period until '87, which was changed to a 100 hour inspection of the clamps, until '97 when they had to be gone, gone, gone. If the prop has not been overhauled since the mid '80s the minimum cost to bring it up to date would be in the eight to nine thousand dollar range.

Next, look at the engine and when it was last overhauled. Many parts were upgraded with better ones until Lycoming plugged their ears with their fingers and began shouting "Yah, yah, yah....I can't hear you," whenever you said O-435. Many of these engines were rebuilt with updated parts, half inch exhaust valves, and high compression cylinders, giving them 225hp...theoretically. Look at the logs, see what's been replaced and when it was replaced.

Let's stop here for a moment. If the prop and engine have not been overhauled since the 70s or early 80s, and haven't been run since the Reagan administration, don't waste any money on them. Proceed to the Franklin option.

Franklin stopped making new engines, but engines are available. Your first thought might be to grab one of those 220hp models. However, the one person I know who has that installation - Mike Grimes - said that if he were not an A&P/IA with close ties to the feds, he could not have pulled it off. This would give you the option of a constant speed prop.

Others will have to counsel you on the other Franklins and the prop options, given that the Aeromatic is hard to find in serviceable condition, and many owners have gone with fixed pitch replacements, alas.

Get back to the group with what you find :)

Jonathan
 
hey ken and all,
for franklin options check with bruce kown at classic aire in georgia. he advertises on barnstormer's and trade-a-plane and is known to me through the stinson club. he has done quite a bit of engineering and certification work on the f-220 for the stinson airframe. i also know he was working on getting the f-220 certified for the cruiseair/master airframes.
bruce is a professional engineer and lockheed engineering manager. if anyone can walk the walk and talk the talk with the feds, it's bruce. if you're at all interested in the franklin i recommend you talk to him before you sink any money into the O-435.
hope this helps,
vic steelhammer & N522A
 
I never thought that there would be so much responce . I am still making up my mind on how I should attach this project. Is it better to try to return it to original or put it together for my on comfort and just make it look better than from factory. I was planing on doing a good check on the wings and complete them and all of the wood first then move on to the fusalage and not get to far into it before I decide on what I want to do with the power plant and prop. Thank for all of the responces. I hope for the same support when It gets into the small stuff :D
 
kpilot2000 Good idea, But I still recommend looking at the engine/prop first.If they cost too much to change/overhaul the airframe could be just about worthless,depending on condition of the wood etc.Next I would take a close look at the wood in the wings, the if all looks okay I'd jump in with both feet.The only reason I say this is because of the resale value is very low on most cruisemasters.(Ijust sold a 1967 172 cessna in ok shape/mid-time eng for $49,000).That kind of money will buy most any Cruisemaster.
 
Indeed as Mark alludes, the great irony of 14 series Bellancas - which, alas, are pretty much the only original Bellancas left - is that they are, without doubt and by far, the greatest undiscovered treasures in general aviation. Yet, they have little value on the used marketplace.

This applies to even the post GM aircraft that carry the Bellanca name, including the Viking.

In short, love 'em but don't sell 'em.

Jonathan
 
Hello group I did not know you'all were around untill yesterday. You will have to excuse my spelling. I have not found the spell check for this page yet.

I have an O-360 with a constant speed prop on my 14-13-2. I purchesed in 1999 flew home and a month later had the left flap pull off on landing. That started a totol rebuild that lasted 2 years.There are 2 on our field with an O-360 and I also have a copy of a third one in my books that was used to get mine. I have talked on the phone with a couple more that have changed theres to an O-360. The nose bowl is from a commanche but the rest is original cowl. You have to make a cover at the bottom for the carb. heat .They took a dinefokel mount and welded it to the Franklin mount. My cruiseair weighs 1390 empty (kind of heavy) and is not as fast as some ( of coures I have not flown beside a Franklin yet) But it will go straight up darn near. I cruise at 24.50/24.50 at 5500 ft temp about 50 indicating 135 mph no wind across the ground at155 mph. Some say they are faster with a 165 Franklin. I have about 500 hrs on it now and love it to death. If you decide to go with an O-360 I will send you some paperwork.
 
ma 1950 cruisemaster weighs 1568 lbs (1032 useful load),havent flown it yet!Does anyone know the fuel burn on the 0-435?
 
Fuel burn at full power is 16gal/hr, at 75% it's 12.5 to 13, at 65% (roughly 130+ knots) it's 11 to 11.5. Published figures put the 75% fuel burn at 14, but you'll only suffer that flying low, without leaning.

This engine is rather overbuilt and has fuel specifics in the .53 to .55 range (pounds of fuel per hour per horsepower). This is why the O-435 went out of production. Lycoming developed four bangers with better fuel specifics that could approach (and now exceed) its power. It's a WWiI military surplus engine after all.

It's smooth running, though each one has an RPM setting it doesn't like. Never fill it with 12 quarts of oil. Keep it at ten; anything more gets blown overboard.

GM chose it over the E series Continental sixes because it has no operating limitations, meaning that you can run it at 2550 all damned day if you want, and you don't have to worry about overboosting it.

Pay close attention to the CHTs. Originally redline was 500 degrees, but that was back in the days when engines were overhauled at 600 hours or so. Try to keep it at 400 degrees or below.

The cowl flap offers help on some 14-19s and on others it either makes little difference or can actually make the heating problem worse. This was due to an overall poor understanding of cooling at the time by all the major manufactures including Beech and North American (later Ryan) in their Navion. The notion was to have a large intake area. This could lead to reverse air flow, and the absence of fences on the 14-19 cowl flap failed to discourage this.

Later engineers realized that air pressure in the cowl was the key. Thus the exit area was more important than the entrance. This made for both better cooling and better aerodynamics.

Er....sorry....all you asked for was fuel burn. Dang, must be the sugar in the pancake syrup <blush>

Jonathan
 
A few observations:

1) If the Cruisair is cheap to buy in the first place, don't sweat the powerplant- buy a -165 off a Stinson guy (or gal) and whistle all the way to the airport knowing your Cruisair is giong to have a sweet combo up front. Ditch the "air anchor".

2) Absolutely worry about the squishy wood outside the left window. If it's confinded to the fuselage window area- fine! Build new- it's not that hard. If it's spread from there down into the wing root possibly into the spar- my friend, you have a problem. Repairs can be made if the damage is limited, but if the spar is rotting, unless you have a spare wing someplace, RUN AWAY! Still- if the aircraft is cheap enough, it's AMAZING what folks restore these days.

3) If you're going to strip and recover the wings, replace the wiring and install wing strobes.

4) Consider installing disc brakes. Check with your AI to make sure the FAA is willing to play ball though- they can be aggravating.

5) Electric fuel pump is a "nice to have"

6) If your old panel is cut up badly, a new one is fairly easy to make. It was the first thing I did so I could keep my instruments from getting knocked around.

7) Above all, do something EVERY DAY- even if it's just sweeping up. :D
 
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