New Decathlon

djpacro

djpacro

Member
I was talking with a friend on the weekend - said he'd been considering a new Decathlon but was put off because he'd heard about problems with the metal spar. I said probably that failure of the strut/spar attach fitting in 1995 - a closed issue from my point of view.
I had heard about fabric/finish issues where Jerry Snr was quoted: "any Decathlon that regularly did Snap Rolls would develop fuel tank leaks"
Another friend stated that every snap roll that is done in his airplane costs him about $1000.
I'm quite happy with the rebuild of my 150 hp fixed pitch Decathlon with wooden spars, my friend has the same option. Of course, the old wing design has some issues too.
The extra 150 lb of gross weight in normal category seems very useful with a new airplane.

Any views that I can pass on to my friend?
 
The fuel tank design and support system are the same on both assemblies, old and new. Its about how you treat the airplane. Sure, fast snaps are crisper, but its quite the unusual load case.
Over the years we have made smal changes to add to the survivabilty of the assembly. Its a slow process since you cannot really model the load case. We have changed the welding method of the tank and added more holes to the center baffle (better flow when sloshing). Also the center baffle has been reinforced. I am sure there are a dozen other changes we have made to try to add to the longevity.

If you refer to the recent IAC article, you basically have a guy trying to use a Decathlon in intermediate competition. That is THE limit of the airplane. An analogy is expecting an SUV to never break if the owner does nothing but off-road in rough terrain. Sure it can handle rough terrain, but was it meant to live in it? A decathlon is like a Ford Escape, not the original Hummer.

"I can't believe my ball joints only lasted 15000 miles. Don't they make these to jump boulders?" :lol:

Good example, watch Bobby Younkin do his show. His 2004 is 100% bone stock. You can bet the airplane will be in great shape years to come yet still do a routine like that. If she is interested in new, Bobby is a dealer as well. Nothing like having a dealer that knows how to fly!! Whether she buys or not, Bobby is worth talking too.

As for problems with the metal spar, there are none. Once, the strut fitting was replaced in 1996. Thats pretty much ancient history now. I always like the debate on spar type at Oshkosh. You have a conversation about wood/alumin then the next guy talks about Husky/Super Cub and how we compare....funny I don't see Aviat or Cub Crafters using Wood. :lol:

In an age where one service difficulty report can spawn a service letter, be careful of hype. In reality, the only difficulty to the new aircraft is the price tag. :P
 
Jerry-

Excellent post, all good points that I agree with, however you didn't address the fabric question.....................

I've confirmed many cases of cracks along reinforcing tapes in post-2000 aircraft, and cracks spreading across skin panels, and know of two aircraft that have actually had the lower surface fabric split completely thru...................

Tom-
 
I can understand Jerry being wary of commenting about the fabric question with people ready to analyse every word he uses.
I'm interested in the fabric/finish process thats used these days.
Thanks for the frank response on the other items, Jerry.
 
I don't answer the fabric question, because I know how messege boards are and I know better than to get in a &%$#ing contest.

One of the 'questionable' airplanes made it back to the factory yesterday.....yes, I was here on Father's Day *cough*.....
Unless I get one of those punching daggers from one of those weird weapon shops at a Ren Faire, I don't know if I could put my hand through the fabric of that plane. Not really sure how someone did either. I do know the poor thing needs some TLC.

Suffice to say, the hairline cracks are a cosmetic issue. Nothing more. The frequency of occurance is a whole lot less than one who surfs the net for it might think. In fact, its not many at all. This does not make trouble shooting any easier since its so inconsistant. Anyone who thinks we are neglecting the issue is sorely mistaken. Its not as easy as a piece of metal breaking.
 
Jerry-

I am truly sorry to have put you on the spot, I must commend you on your valuable input at this forum, and sincerely hope it continues. Understand it was with great reluctance that I finally posted today because the question was so obvious.

My research indicates this problem is far more wide spread then most realize, that given the two confirmed cases of splitting there is a significant potential airworthiness concern. While I have personally inspected many post-2000 aircraft with cracks my knowledge of the two confirmed cases of splitting are based entirely on conversations with the operators and I've heard an entirely different story.

Had my issues with fabric cracks been resolved as promised (in writing) in 2001, we would not be having this most public discussion.

Tom-
 
Nothing like a public threat to chase me away. I guess this thread is headed just as I predicted. Therefore I am done with it.

I was not involved, Tom, and I am not going to get involved.
 
Jerry-

"THREAT", not a threat, merely a stating of fact in response to the earlier question about fabric, this is a legitimate topic that others have raised on this board in prior threads.

There is no question that you have not been involved with this issue, a number of us have legitimate questions that should be answered by ACA, the only way to put this to rest is to finally address the problem. Like it or not everyone at ACA is involved with the issue of fabric/finish problems in the long term, this IS a problem that needs to be resolved.

If the planes are "questionable" then it would be far better to give the community the true story then continue to allow incorrect information to be passed around. The operator told me Jerry Sr. attributed the first case of splitting, that I was aware of, to a "bad batch of fabric", no fabric manufacturer I've spoken with is aware of a bad batch of fabric?

Your input has been most valued here..............................and I commend you for posting, for your valued input, for your candor, I must admit I was pleasantly surprised when I saw your first posts.

Tom-
 
Gentlemen:

This is not the proper venue for discussing personal issues with ACAC; Jerry Jr. is on this Forum as an individual, NOT as a representative of the Company.

His role as Chief Engineer makes him a very desirable participant here, one we should not jeopardize due to disagreements with management. Please present factual cases directly to the Company.

Thank you,
 
Bob-

Sorry about the single line about my particular unresolved problem, that comment was made in response to Jerry's stated desire not to discuss this publicly, a desire with which I concur.

I too value the input of Jerry Jr., his postings have been most valuable and appreciated, it's good to have access to facts, rather than rumour, old wives tales.

However the issue of fabric cracking AND splitting has been raised here a number of times, by various members, some asking questions, some with first hand knowledge. The issue of fabric/finish was raised in the orginal posting in this thread, and ignored by Jerry. Jerry is Chief Engineer, he made a comment, in this thread, about fabric cracking, and expressed first hand knowledge of at least one case of splitting, there are many with concerns who yearn for more factual information about these issues. When I speak with someone who has had an aircraft that was produced 1 month prior to mine tell me he could reach through the split lower surface fabric and grab the ribs it becomes an airworthiness concern, NOT a mere cosmetic issue as Jerry stated.

Fabric cracking, and splitting is NOT a personal issue between myself and ACA, but a concern for all with post-2000 ACA aircraft or wings.

Tom-
 
ACA must be doing something right judging by the numbers of new airplanes being sold. As far as I know its been 12 years since a new one has arrived in Australia. Time to do something about it.
Jerry, if you like I'll put you in direct contact with my friend - you may be able to sell him a few. Good luck.
 
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